Author Topic: [Idea] Factions in ModTown  (Read 2692 times)

Darkelfguy

  • Administrator
  • Modder Emissary
  • *****
  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: +20/-0
    • View Profile
[Idea] Factions in ModTown
« on: June 04, 2015, 08:26:58 PM »
Now there's been a lot of discussion about how to make a ModTown relevant to the players, and an idea I want to put forward is that, in addition to a main quest, we should perhaps consider adding a unique faction to the island. This isn't entirely unprecedented, ModTown 2004 had the Guild of the Godwalkers after all, the only difference is that we'll be aiming to make a faction that the player can join and do quests for, adding an extra reason to play with the ModTown installed.

This of course complicates things, as building a faction is no easy task, there's plenty of ways to accidently mess it all up. A faction needs a compelling story that keeps the player interested, while not handing everything to them on a silver platter *cough* Skyrim *cough*, and have some memorable quests that are more than simple get this and that objectives. I also think a faction ought to represent one of the aspects of modding, in keeping with a ModTown theme.

I've been trying to draw up ways to do this, and if you'll allow me, I've detailed my ideas for a faction below:

The faction I've designed is called simply the "Community Consortium" (though I'm open to other names), a guild dedicated to servicing the needs of ModTown and planning new growth and development for the city. This faction is composed namely of normal NPCs and not so much Modder avatars, so as to blend in a bit better with normal content, but they do serve the interests of the modder avatars in town.

The player will start out in this faction with a few simple tasks, delivering goods and dealing first-hand with eccentric modder avatars (who may send the player off on crazy side adventures), before moving up the ranks and getting some more difficult and interesting tasks. The story of this faction starts to play itself out more in these later quests, as the Community Consortium is looking to greatly expand ModTown with new services and residents, but there's been some opposition to the expansion and disagreement among the modder avatars.

In order to get the expansion of the town started, the player will have to go between the various groups of modder avatars and sway their minds to one philosophy of the expansion or another, getting them to compromise and negotiate on certain elements, though this may require doing more eccentric tasks for these modder avatars. The outcome of this questline will be an expanded city, but depending on how the player convinces modder avatars and what positions get settled, there could be several different resulting buildings and services.

The final quest for the faction will involve a small corruption scandal, where some of the money for the expansion has been taken by various NPCs of the faction, including the guild master, and the player will have to piece together the facts, ultimately defeating or arresting the guild master and the NPCs involved and finishing the expansion of ModTown (side note: we could look into some repeatable quests for after the player becomes the guild master, or hand-me-down quests for lower ranked faction members ala Arcimaestro Antares Big Mod).

As a reward, the modder avatars will allow the player to settle in with their own home, and the idea I'd like to explore here is allowing the player a wide variety of choices when it comes to the design of their home, like a base Velothian, Telvanni, Redoran, Hlaalu and Imperial style homes. They get to choose the architectural style, as well as which rooms they'd like to have (sort of similar to Istreddify's recent house mods) in their dwelling. This gives the player a lot of choice in housing options, and gives them a reason to keep coming back.

This faction design comprises elements of modding such as Community, Cooperation (which by necessity often means negotiation and compromise), and Building with a slight emphasis on Creativity (since what gets built is partially decided by the player) without being too heavy-handed about it all.

It also gives us a chance to explore the eccentric personalities of modders (because let's face it, none of us are normal :P), and we can craft a ton of fun and memorable quests around these personalities. I know a lot of my favorite quest mods have memorable quests, and that's kept me coming back, like MentalElf's "The Trouble with Milie" with all of the crazy quests from shrinkrays to dinner parties, or "The Illuminated Order" with lots of interesting lore and sometimes absurd quest results (like the Wererat).

Indeed, I'd also suggest including, as part of the expansion of the town, the option to bring in the Mages Guild, Fighters Guild or Thieves Guild to the island with their own quests. There's a lot of fun opportunities for quest designs with each one exploring the eccentricities of the modder avatars. Perhaps for the Thieve's Guild the player might be asked to steal a precious object from a modder avatar? Or maybe for the Fighter's Guild one of the modder avatars has accidently summoned a horde of mini Nix-Hounds that are now plaguing the town? There's so many ways we can add meaningful and fun quests to the project that will keep the player coming back and revisiting ModTown for years to come.

Anyway, those are just my ideas on the matter, and after typing all that out, I'm now sorely tempted to start writing a complete faction questline... But before I do that, what do you guys all think on the matter?

Also, in case you're wondering about the interior-side of things with a town expansion, it should be noted that I personally have 20 interiors ready to be committed to anything we might decide (in addition to the three I already posted), and I'm sure a lot of us have interiors from old projects we could end up using in ModTown, so most of the work here would be in the writing and design of the faction rather than with building tons of new interiors (though we will still need a few all-new interiors for this).
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 08:32:12 PM by Darkelfguy »
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written, In writing what deserves to be read. - Pliny the Elder

HangHimHigher

  • Community Assistant
  • **
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2015, 08:51:56 AM »
I think it's a great idea!  It seems to do a really good job of making interesting stuff to do which, while having modding-related overtones, isn't in-your-face about it.  It also seems to have a lot of room for different modders' input in terms of quests and so on.

The one thing I'm a bit apprehensive about would be the Mages and Fighters' Guilds getting involved.  Not because they'd be a bad idea in themselves, but just because having three entire factions with multiple quest lines each, plus a main quest, might be overly ambitious, depending on how many modders get involved.  Maybe we could solidify the main faction and keep the other guilds in the back of our minds, get an idea of how many people we have on board later, and then decide whether to implement those guilds or not?  If we have enough people, great!  If not, we could always just add more quest-givers to the main faction.  For example, the Consortium could have a "head mage" who gives mage-like quests which would otherwise have been in the Mages Guild stuff, and so on.

Anyway, again, I think it's a great idea!

Istreddify

  • Modder Acolyte
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2015, 01:18:32 PM »
I love this idea. Though I have to wonder, if the guild questline couldn't fill the role of a main quest (allowing for greater fleshing out and more detail)?

I agree with HangHimHigher that we shouldn't start too ambitious. I'm all for bringing the various guilds to ModTown, but I think the initial plan for those could be 1 quest for each - which would be bringing said faction to the island - and leave it at that. Since guilds would bring additional services for the player (Mages would offer teleportation, Thieves dealing away with any bounties, Fighters could offer actual training facilities (using Stuporstar's dummies or possibly scripting NPCs to offer sparring matches)), there would be both motivation and a reward to do those quests, at the same time not requiring too much work.

Quote
A faction needs a compelling story that keeps the player interested, while not handing everything to them on a silver platter *cough* Skyrim *cough*
I'd argue that many of Morrowind's factions don't have an actual story to them - and I like it more than Oblivion's and Skyrim's system where each has one (though this may be also due to the fact that we're put in the role of a saviour in most of them).

Melchior Dahrk

  • Moderator
  • Community Ambassador
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
  • Karma: +26/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 09:17:41 PM »
I like your ideas, Dark. And I agree that as opposed to spending tons of time on both a Faction and Main questline, that the faction quests could potentially take the place of a main quest.

Don't have too much input at the moment. Gotta think about finishing the island.

Darkelfguy

  • Administrator
  • Modder Emissary
  • *****
  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: +20/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 01:13:04 AM »
Community Consortium: Introductory Overview and Quest Design Document

[The Community Consortium is an organization of NPCs created to service the needs of ModTown and the modders that dwell there. Often their primary task is providing supplies and materials to various modders, assisting in modder works, and planning the expansion of the town and bringing in new trade and residents. While an organization designed to support the ModTown community and modders in particular, the relationship between the Community Consortium and modders is not singularly beneficial to just the modders. In return for their services, modders pay Community Consortium membership dues, and also provide new structures and land on occasion to support the expansion and growth of ModTown. Of course, this doesn't work quite so simply as all of that, with many modders reluctant to pay their part, or disagreeing about how an expansion should be managed, or if it should occur at all. The player will wander into all of this as they make their way through the ranks.]

Ranks:
   Underling
   Community Assistant
   Modder Acolyte
   Community Secretary
   Modder Emissary
   Community Ambassador
   Modder-In-Waiting
   Community Fixer
   ModTown Planning Commissioner
   Grand Architect of ModTown
Favored Attributes:
   Personality
   Intelligence
Favored Skills:
   Speechcraft
   Alteration
   Illusion
   Mercantile
   Conjuration
   Axe

[Quest Line]
The faction quest line consists of 15 quests, divided into three faction parts:
   The Beginning - Early Quests that Introduce the Player to the Faction and to the Modders and get the background plot rolling. Typical quests consist of gathering items, delivering goods, and having to deal with eccentric modders.
   The Town Expansion - Mid-way Quests that focus on getting the various elements in place to expand the  town. Quests here include obtaining property deeds, signing contracts, making choices, and getting new modders to move into town.
   Corruption - The final part of the questline, money and materials for the construction and expansion of town have turned up short. At first the player is told to go gather dues from the modders, which they may not exactly give up willingly. Further quests may involve concerned guild members who have seen shady deals going on in the background, following the clues to uncover the corrupt members of the organization, removing them, and the final quest or two involves finishing up the construction phase of the expansion and getting one of the mainland guilds to move into town. The very last core faction quest will be the player building their new house on the island.
   Optional Post-Faction Quests - Additional quests involving certain members of the Consortium can be added in after the faction questline is complete, and these are optional quests to add new features to the Consortium or to town. Also, a few repeatable quests, like gathering dues or having guild members do certain tasks can be added in to ensure the faction has functionality even after the player finishes the core questline.

[Part One - The Beginning - Quest Ideas]
[Note: The first four quests are given by the Community Secretary, the second four quests by the Community Ambassador, the third four quests by the Arch-Magister of ModTown, and the final three by the Community Fixer (related to the corruption in the Community Consortium).]

First Quest [Rank: Underling] - Involves the player picking up a shipment for the Community Consortium from a recently docked ship. Shipment includes materials to be delivered to modders and basic items for the Consortium. While at the ship, the player may notice a stack of crates that another Community Assistant is picking up (this is a clue to the future corruption storyline).

Second Quest [Rank Underling] - The player is requested to deliver some materials to one of the modders in the community. This may prove more challenging than originally thought, as the modder in question may have designed a maze like dungeon (or other obstacle) to get to them. This quest is designed by the modder in question, so ultimate layout of the quest is up to them.

Third Quest [Rank: Community Assistant] - It's time to collect dues and three modders in particular are behind on paying their membership fees. The player will be sent out to collect, though each modder may have some sort of nefarious side adventure for the player to do first before paying (the player will of course have the option of paying their dues for them). Unbeknownst to the player, part of these dues get pocketed by the Community Secretary and never reach the Consortium coffers (echoing back to our corruption plotline).  Each part of this quest is designed by the modders in question.

Fourth Quest [Rank: Community Assistant] - A banquet is being prepared to welcome the newest modder to ModTown, and among other things, certain officials and guild representatives from the mainland have been invited to consider investing in the town. Unfortunately, the Consortium is low on food and booze for the party, and making good impressions with the honored guests is considered a necessity. The player is sent out by the Community Secretary in search of taverns or shops that could cater the event.

Fifth Quest [Rank: Modder Acolyte] - One of ModTown's modders is working on a new project, one that could benefit the residents of the entire town, but they need help getting it finished. The player is sent by the Consortium to do whatever is necessary to assist the modder in question, and this will surely involve some interesting tasks. This quest is, of course, designed by the modder involved.

[Part Two - The Town Expansion]
[Note: After successfully the last quest, the Consortium goes into full swing planning a major expansion of ModTown. By this point, the player is taking orders from the Community Ambassador.]

Sixth Quest [Rank: Modder Acolyte] - The early phases of the town expansion are in motion, but there's just one problem, one of the plots needed for any potential development is owned by a modder who is resistant to the expansion. The plot has been owned by this modder for years, with the intention of developing it themselves, but they've let it stagnate instead. The player will have to convince this modder to give up the land deed to this plot of land, or provide an alternative for the modder, or do a series of tasks to help the modder with their ambitions. Naturally this quest is designed by the modder in question.

Seventh Quest [Rank: Community Secretary] - As part of the player's new rank, it's now their job to travel and meet with various business interests and convince them to move into ModTown. Part of this particular quest will involve two stubborn business partners,  and depending on who the player can convince, the town may end up with a different set of shops.

Eighth Quest [Rank: Community Secretary] - There's now two community secretaries in the Community Consortium, and so the player needs to agree on a division of labor with their co-secretary (and previous boss). Let's just say the co-secretary isn't particularly amendable to sharing powers, so the player will be given a choice of which tasks to delegate to the other secretary and which to do themselves. This particular pile of tasks includes meeting with an estranged modder and ironing out a deal to provide more transportation options to ModTown (designed by the modder in question), and going off to find a mercenary group in order to staff ModTown's increasing need for proper guards. Remember that the other secretary is corrupt, so which-ever task the player leaves to them will likely result in a worse deal for ModTown (like less transportation services versus less guards and security for new businesses) since said secretary is likely to try and pocket some of the allotted money for themselves.

Ninth Quest [Rank: Modder Emissary] - As the new Modder Emissary, the player will be sent off to convince two modders in different parts of Vvardenfell to take residence in ModTown. This will likely involve additional modder tasks, or guaranteeing particular services to satisfy modder demands. As with all prior modder-related quests, these will be designed by the modders involved. Keep in mind that while these modders will still have plots in ModTown, they'll be activated only after this quest is finished, and otherwise those plots will be disabled (not visible to the player).

Tenth Quest [Rank: Modder Emissary] - A major disagreement has erupted between two parties of modders regarding the future expansion of ModTown, and as the current Emissary of the Community Consortium, the player is called upon to meet with the leaders of the two camps and come to a settlement, either favoring one camp or the other. The issue of the split is over whether a particular set of land should be used as a common marketplace and home to modder apprentices, or if it should be left to be used for the modder's own purposes (read: creative usage). The player will have to gain the trust of the leaders of one camp or another, hear their detailed plans for development, and ultimately decide on which they'd rather ModTown have. Needless to say, the two main modders involved will have to write out their side of the argument (along with suggestions for what the creative usage side would build).

[Part Three - Corruption]
[Note: At the start of this part, the player has just been promoted to Community Ambassador, after the last ambassador was promoted to Community Fixer, who was themselves filling the role of the old Community Fixer who had been promoted to be the ModTown Planning Commissioner at the beginning of the construction phase. With the first set of quests, the player is taking orders from the Arch-Magister of ModTown, but a few quests are also given by the Community Fixer here.]

Eleventh Quest [Rank: Community Ambassador] - The Community Consortium has just discovered that their coffers are lower than expected, possibly due to that corruption undercurrent going on in the background, and as a result construction on the expansion has halted until new funds can be found and allocated to the project. It's decided internally by the Consortium leadership that the modders of ModTown must pay an additional membership fee in order to finish the project, and a group of Community Assistants are dispatched to collect the fees. Most return with either a part or all of the money they were sent to collect, but two have disappeared. As the Community Ambassador, the player will have to make the rounds of the modders these Community Assistants were supposed to visit and figure out where along the way they disappeared. This will involve confronting the two offending modders who've either killed or locked up the poor Community Assistants who had been sent to collect money. As usual, the modders involved will design this portion of the quests, and ultimately decide the Community Assistants fates.

Twelfth Quest [Rank: Modder-In-Waiting] - After a short tenure as the Community Ambassador, the player is promoted to Modder-In-Waiting to keep them from investigating too much into the disappearance of gold from the coffers. Instead, they're given a task of taking a survey of the modders around town on a question of services they'd like to have. But before the player can leave to do this busy-work, they're pulled aside by the Community Fixer (our old Community Ambassador), and told that something fishy is going on with the leadership of the Consortium. The Community Fixer doesn't know for sure who all is in on it, but they're convinced that the Community Secretary has been dipping into the coffers. The Fixer will send the player to track down the Secretary and confront them, forcing them to reveal who else is in on the embezzlement. The Community Secretary will point the finger at the current ModTown Planning Commissioner, and the player will get to decide what to do with the secretary, either to expose them or to allow them to disappear quietly. The quest is finished when the player turns in some falsified surveys to the Arch-Magister, before going to the Community Fixer with what they know.

Thirteenth Quest [Rank: Community Fixer] - Pleased with the player's progress, and secretly suspecting the Community Fixer of being a possible mole, the Arch-Magister promotes the player to the rank of Community Fixer, working in conjunction with the current Community Fixer, with the additional assignment of reporting any suspicious behavior directly to the Arch-Magister. Their first task as Community Fixer is to take some building plans down to a survey group working on the expansion and get their input about the planned designs for the land. Again, the co-Fixer will pull the player aside and talk about finding evidence of the Planning Commissioner's corruption, offering to take the building plans and do the job for the player, if the player will also break into the Planning Commissioner's chambers and find evidence of embezzlement. The player at this point can either do as the Fixer wants, or go to the Arch-Magister and inform them of the Fixer's "suspicious behavior". If they do this, the Fixer will be expelled, and the Arch-Magister will promote the player to Planning Commissioner to work alongside the existing Commissioner. If not, the player will find evidence in the form of a log which implicates the Arch-Magister as well. With this evidence in hand, the player will confront the Arch-Magister and blackmail them for the Planning Commissioner's position, giving the Arch-Magister an out by expelling the current Commissioner and using them as the fall guy.

Fourteenth Quest [Rank: ModTown Planning Commissioner] - As the new commissioner, it's up to the player to decide which guilds the town wants to setup shop here. They'll meet with representatives of the Mages, Fighters, and to a more discreet degree, the Thieves guild, and discuss what services each can provide ModTown. The player will then decide on which guild will move in, given limited funding (unless they pay out of pocket),  and oversee initial construction and providing any materials the guilds might request (weapons for the fighters guild, books or alchemy supplies for the mages guild, and lockpicks and alcohol to the thieves guild).

Fifteenth Quest [Rank: ModTown Planning Commissioner] - Fearful that the player will try and reveal what they know (or paranoid of what they might know, if a different path was taken), the Arch-Magister plots a trap to kill off the player. First they give the player a quest to investigate a nearby ruin, claiming that they could consider renovating it and making it apart of ModTown. The player will go along with it all, but if the Fixer is still around, he'll pull the player aside and reveal their suspicions about the Arch-Magister's motivations, offering to go with the player as protection. Once in the ruin, they'll encounter the Arch-Magister, along with a few of the other minor Consortium members who had been in on the embezzlement, and here the player will have to fight their way out. In the end, if they manage to kill the Arch-Magister, they'll replace them and become the new Arch-Magister of the Community Consortium.

Sixteenth Quest [Rank: Arch-Magister of ModTown] - With the revelation that the prior Arch-Magister had been on the take and embezzling funds from the town coffers, the modders of ModTown decide to reward the player with an estate of their own creation. A representative of the modders will meet with the player and discuss the type of architecture and number of rooms that they want in their new manor, giving the player a fair amount of choice. Once complete, the player will be able to move into their new abode, the final capstone to the ModTown expansion. This quest can be designed by the modder in particular, if so desired.

*phew* If the word count on this is correct, this came in at about 2600 words, so I'm going to leave off here before getting into any post-complete faction quest ideas and let everyone else comment or suggest changes for a while...

I think it's a great idea!  It seems to do a really good job of making interesting stuff to do which, while having modding-related overtones, isn't in-your-face about it.  It also seems to have a lot of room for different modders' input in terms of quests and so on.

The one thing I'm a bit apprehensive about would be the Mages and Fighters' Guilds getting involved.  Not because they'd be a bad idea in themselves, but just because having three entire factions with multiple quest lines each, plus a main quest, might be overly ambitious, depending on how many modders get involved.  Maybe we could solidify the main faction and keep the other guilds in the back of our minds, get an idea of how many people we have on board later, and then decide whether to implement those guilds or not?  If we have enough people, great!  If not, we could always just add more quest-givers to the main faction.  For example, the Consortium could have a "head mage" who gives mage-like quests which would otherwise have been in the Mages Guild stuff, and so on.

Anyway, again, I think it's a great idea!

Thanks, and I suppose that's true, planning entire quest lines for multiple guilds would be a chore, but we could still add the guilds in without quests (after all, they provide a lot of services). Although, my initial idea was that each guild would only have five quests, so it wouldn't be a ton of work.

I love this idea. Though I have to wonder, if the guild questline couldn't fill the role of a main quest (allowing for greater fleshing out and more detail)?

I agree with HangHimHigher that we shouldn't start too ambitious. I'm all for bringing the various guilds to ModTown, but I think the initial plan for those could be 1 quest for each - which would be bringing said faction to the island - and leave it at that. Since guilds would bring additional services for the player (Mages would offer teleportation, Thieves dealing away with any bounties, Fighters could offer actual training facilities (using Stuporstar's dummies or possibly scripting NPCs to offer sparring matches)), there would be both motivation and a reward to do those quests, at the same time not requiring too much work.

Quote
A faction needs a compelling story that keeps the player interested, while not handing everything to them on a silver platter *cough* Skyrim *cough*
I'd argue that many of Morrowind's factions don't have an actual story to them - and I like it more than Oblivion's and Skyrim's system where each has one (though this may be also due to the fact that we're put in the role of a saviour in most of them).

True that is a good point about the faction services, though I'd argue that many of Morrowind's factions do have a story behind them, just a little more subtle than what's found in the later Elder Scrolls games. Like the Thieves Guild and their small war with the Cammona Tong, or the Mages Guild and the Telvanni with an incompetent Arch-Mage, or the Fighter's Guild and their somewhat corrupt quest line.

I like your ideas, Dark. And I agree that as opposed to spending tons of time on both a Faction and Main questline, that the faction quests could potentially take the place of a main quest.

Don't have too much input at the moment. Gotta think about finishing the island.

Now that I've written out the initial overview quest design document for the faction, I see how it could work to take the place of the main quest. Though I do want to leave the door open to a main quest, if anyone has some really good ideas, and I'd really like to see some Daedra quests thrown in somewhere (again with the idea of using Sunbro's assets for realms of Oblivion), maybe related to Sheogorath or Azura.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 12:39:40 AM by Darkelfguy »
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written, In writing what deserves to be read. - Pliny the Elder

Melchior Dahrk

  • Moderator
  • Community Ambassador
  • *****
  • Posts: 603
  • Karma: +26/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2015, 11:18:30 PM »
I think that the faction questline sounds really good so far. I haven't read through it in enough detail to identify any other features which should be added to the island yet. But I will try to do so, or perhaps we can identify them in another thread.

One nitpicky comment is that the ranks seem to flow really well until they get to the Arch-Magister... that one just doesn't seem to fit with the others at all. It's less administrative in nature. I think something more like President of ModTown, Chief Modding Officer of Modtown, The Chief, Grand Minister of ModTown (I like this one). Or something like that...

Istreddify

  • Modder Acolyte
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2015, 11:50:44 AM »
I agree with Melchior on both accounts. Perhaps the final rank would work better as something along the lines of Grand Architect, Prime Architect or Senior Modder?

HangHimHigher

  • Community Assistant
  • **
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2015, 03:49:04 AM »
Firstly, I agree with the others that Archmagister sounds off... mostly because it would seem like we'd just ripped it off the Telvanni!  "Grand Architect" had a nice ring to it, Istreddify!

Secondly, I agree that we should just make this the main quest.  After all, if the Consortium dominates the island, then it makes sense that upheaval in the Consortium would have a big impact on things.

I like the general design especially because it allows for so much diversity in quests.  Modders make quests very differently -- some like humour, some incorporate scripted mayhem, I like putting in heaps of dialogue, etc, and having modders each design their own quests is a lovely way of diversifying and showcasing different ways of quest modding!  One suggestion I could make for added replay value is, maybe give players a choice of which modders to choose from?  Like (paraphrasing) "Ok, we need to deliver this XYZ to these six modders on the list.  You pick two of them to run deliveries to, and I'll have someone else do the rest." That would offer the promise of replaying ModTown and picking different modders to interact with, and increase the diversity of what's offered.

I also like how the player's choices actually leave lasting effects on the town.  That's something which even Morrowind itself was kinda lacking in I felt, so it'd be great to have a "your decisions have visible consequences" thing here.

One thing I think we have to appreciate is the complexities involved in having people move in or out of ModTown, have different versions of construction to go ahead, etc.  Not saying that we shouldn't do it -- we absolutely should -- but it sounds like it's going to involve a lot of careful town planning.  It's not as simple as having a bunch of buildings which we can enable as construction progresses -- we need to make ModTown in its initial form look fairly complete, and then have additions to that.  Having a collection of buildings with wide empty spaces in between them for potential future construction would look odd (unless it's explained in the backstory, eg ModTown is brand new, etc).

I would also try to limit interactions between ModTown and Vvardenfell at large.  Because we've got modder avatars and all other kinds of delightfully bizarre stuff, I don't think it would fit very well with vanilla MW.  Personally, I think it would be better if ModTown was off on its own as a special kind of place.  Meeting up with people on VV and trying to convince them to come to ModTown?  Maybe we could let it slide.  Having modder avatars already living in VV and convincing them to come to ModTown, I'm not too keen about.  Imagine playing a lore-friendly modlist, walking into Ghostgate all grim and ready to begin the campaign on Red Mountain... and them bumping into a modder who's just wandering around with all this dialogue about their mod projects and the game at large.  It doesn't really make sense to me.  I guess we could have modder avatars living on tiny little islands across Vvardenfell and convincing them to move over, but then that would open us up to landscape conflicts, no?

Lastly, should we have some sort of element of danger?  The questline template references needing guards, for example.  Is there something ModTown needs to be wary of?  If we wanted, we could tie this in to the corruption questline -- perhaps the corrupt ones are betraying ModTown to some ancient enemy of its for coin?  I don't know, it's just a thought which occurred to me because the questline, while certainly engaging, doesn't seem to have all that much at stake?  I mean, corruption isn't good, but we're not talking about the survival of ModTown here, because the town is already established.  We're talking about expansion, and town expansion falling through because of corrupt higher-ups isn't exactly the stuff of nightmares.

But having something at stake doesn't mean that we have to add some epic battle to save the world or something.  We could even just frame it like, ModTown has fallen on some hard times and expansion is necessary to thrive.  In that case, the embezzlement and screwing over stuff would be really problematic and worrying, rather than just inducing an "ugh..." response.

Danjb

  • Outlander
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2015, 06:27:27 AM »
This looks like a solid questline to me - lots of scope for variety. A couple of comments...

Is it a little bit too complicated towards the end? It seems like there are lots of different possible paths. That's not to say it's not feasible, just that it might require a lot of work to handle all of the different eventualities, and I wonder if it might benefit from being a tad simpler.

Also, the ranks seem a bit strange to me. Why do they keep alternating between "Modder ..." and "Community ..."? Surely there should be a "Modder" rank after "Modder-In-Waiting"?

I like how a lot of the quests are going to be designed by the modders they relate to. Are there any specific quests you'd like some ideas for?

LadyPhoenixFireRose

  • Moderator
  • Modder Emissary
  • *****
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2015, 09:23:35 PM »
Just some thoughts of mine, to maybe help organize this a little better.

I went through and read most everything on the plans and stuff for this, and I noticed that a fair bit of the master plan  and decisions on what to do with it has been scattered through various topics, and while that works fine with with just a few people working it out. It is hard for newer people to follow, and not only that, now that members are really starting to grow it would make it even harder to keep track of it all.

For some examples, there is a main quest topic, and this factions topic. The main quest topic doesn't include anywhere that it is going to be with part of this faction. Then topic is listed as an "idea" which gives the impression it is not all that important and can be ignored if you don't want to read over everything. Also, I noticed, from what I've read, that Autoclock's Avatar is supposed to work into the main quest, as the main antagonist, and yet nowhere I have found incorporates just how that is to work out.

My thoughts on how to improve this would be to take everything that has been decided upon for this so far, and put it into one topic to discuss. That way those do want to know about it, and help out with can find the info they need.

Another thing is that I think that some kind of rule topic would be helpful. I get that you don't want to put too many restrictions into this, but just putting things like the policy on what to do for resources, and MWSE and the like, would be great, and it would probably cut back on all the questions about it. Just somewhere where people can go and quickly find out something, so they don't have to wait for a reply and can move on immediately. It could also be the place to go to ask those questions, so that others can see the answers and don't end up missing them because that was where they looked.

The other big thing, that I think would  be of great help, though it might be kind of early, and you may have already thought of this and could be waiting to implement it, is that I noticed a lot of these the quests outlined in this plan involve modder's avatars, and look like they can be claimed to be created by a modder or modders, so wouldn't it be helpful to add a claiming area, like with the land plots? That there is somewhere that we can see who is doing what, and if there is something still open for us to work on...

Actually, I just had another thought, wouldn't an NPC master list be helpful, so that we know what npcs still need to be created? It could divide them into types, one needed for the main quest/faction, ones needed for less important things, and so on.

These are just ideas that mostly just came to me as I was writing this, so feel free to expand upon them, or throw them out the window. I just want to help in any way that I can to get this to succeed!
"If Death doesn't kill you, then nothing will."
"Fate can only do so much for a person, the rest is up to them."

Darkelfguy

  • Administrator
  • Modder Emissary
  • *****
  • Posts: 368
  • Karma: +20/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2015, 12:31:51 PM »
You're quite right that things are a little disorganized, particularly with the main quest. We were originally going to have a dedicated non-faction main quest, but decided to just go with the Community Consortium as our main quest, but the two topics were never merged. I've setup a complete Main Quest discussion topic in the Quest Designs and Implementation forum board that explains our faction and outlines 22 planned quests, though obviously it may still need a little work.

I've also gone through and posted a FAQ to try and help people who are confused about general rules and what ModTown is, and people can post additional questions there if they need clarification on something.

As for a quest claiming area, we'll be using the Quest Designs and Implementations forum board for handling main quest claims, and we'll eventually be setting up open topics for people to claim particular quests in the main quest (though we might wait a little while, in case we change the design of the quest line somewhat).

As far as NPCs go, a lot of the important NPCs haven't quite been decided yet, we may just let the modders who handle each claim come up with NPCs, but we will eventually need a list of Community Consortium NPCs at the very least and that's something we'll need to work on.
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written, In writing what deserves to be read. - Pliny the Elder

LadyPhoenixFireRose

  • Moderator
  • Modder Emissary
  • *****
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: [Idea] Factions in ModTown
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2015, 05:35:47 PM »
That sounds, and looks good! :)
"If Death doesn't kill you, then nothing will."
"Fate can only do so much for a person, the rest is up to them."